The Ultimate Design?

Introduction. The Purpose of the Ultimate Series pt2.

Just going to take a moment to explain the purpose behind this series of 'H-Class' Battleships.

This site, although it contains some artistic impresions of actual modern warships, they are not the main purpose behind creating this site. Firstly it was the easiest way for a amateur historian like myself to publish my opinions on how I perceive military history seems to be written to preserves the views of what has occurred during wartime of lonely one side of a War, the victor.

I have already gone into some detail of this subject on earlier pages on this website and after getting it  'of my chest' I got to thinking about some future designs been discussed and other concept ideas , hense the 'concept design' section to this website.

Next I decided that the H class was worth looking into in a hypothetical sense of what needed to be changed to allow the general development of the final classes of the battlewagons and here we are.

What I have attempted here is to gather enough historical data to reliabily put myself, in a sense, into the shoes, or the mind rather, of someone with the job of designing such a vessel.

Below is my second attempt to do so and as I have stated below,. I will be up loading further designs that will be 'historically improved' as I continue to gather further historical data to improve my accuracy. Secondarily to this is my desire to confirm via reliable sources how close I have managed to those shoes.

Recent evidence to.hand suggests that I am not that far away from achieving this illusive goal, or at least two areas my designs are remarkably similar to the 1941 alternative design in regards to inclining the main belt and the theorized use of the v24 Man 42/58 engine. The last been the intended diesel component to the dual type propulsion system.


In depth look into the design of the H44 class?

fig 4. Changes are the two torpedo bulkheads are outside the offset lower main belt. All armour is inclined @ 25 degs. The offset belt insures any functioning AP shel deflected into the TPS explodes a distance away from the actual armour, thus increasing the effectivness of the lower belt.

The reader of this web site will have to forgive me because I change my mind about the subject of this page from the 'h45 ultimate design, to that of the aborted 'h39 class' development and where possible the proceeding h classes alternatives.

Update 23/7/17

After further research I decided to keep too "scale" the secondary and AA arrangements. The valid point that the orginial setup was weight closely is mute in this H44/H45 design. 159mm secondary with the proposed 128mm KM41 AAA weapon said be under development. I have taken some artistic licence over the quad 37mm in both calibre and the inclosed turret.

Inclosed bridge as well is to counter the expect massive blast effect from the 53cm cannons.

Further the Radar area search antennas are as far away from the main battery as I could logically go.

Fig 4. shows the modified armour array, which acknowledges the superior performance of the internal belt arrangement decapping in coming AP shells, while the modification fixes the issue of multple explosive effects to the Torpedo protection system the last battkeships were unable to fully protect themselves against.

Main Belt 350mm KcNa backed by 60mm teak on 60mm Wh backing plate.

Lower Belt 200mm Wh.

torpedo bulkheads 60mm Ww.

Scrap 200mm Wh.

No rivets were welding possible

After further reflection on some additional information from various sources and confirmation from reliable historical record, problems that existed in key areas of this design were not solved intil modern times, which makes the possiblity that even on a hypothetical design basis most improbable.

I still believe that if a calibre above 18 inches was to be used, a existing weapon would be utilized and not a non-existant 20 inch weapon. Experience with the 21 inch heavy mortar Karl Gerat could be considered valuable development data on the shells at least.

I decided to go back and look closer at the h-class historical tme line and possibly predict what may have occured if the 1940's had followed Reader's time line of peace unitil at least 1945 instead.

 Further to this dicussion new data on the thinking from krupp on the question of main battery type, it is suggested that the 40.6 cm /52 unit could have a increased muzzle velocity or the naval version to have a muzzle velocity of  900 fps. I will have run this new figure thru the ballistic simulators to the minimum effects on performance this brings.

Included in the new data is what appears to be a memo/ discussion paper on the 42cm and 47cm  proposals between krupps and the office of naval design. The calibres lengths for both weapons was going to be 60 so this suggests as if both were going to be new designs if ordered.

Included in this memo was detailed turret dimensions and weights. Plus a surprise of both twin and tripple turret configurations for both calibres. Vital info for my project.

Further modelling of these other calibres show no improvement over the 53cm Gerat canon when wayed up against the very real possibilty that they would be well and truely balistically over driven, thus the shells could well not only spin on their centre axis, but start to oscillate in a unfavourable way that would effect their long range accuracy.

Something noted by historians when noting that the 50% or less accuracy zone for German cannons extended over a graeter range than western weapons.

NOTE: The reduction in muzzle velocity of the German 406mm canon was probably a attempt to fix this issue.

The monsterous size off this ship would indicate a High Seas operation or true Blue water world wide operations. A wartime Germany would never had built her, only in peace could Germany had come close to been able to create this monster. Remembering that ALL of the canelled designs around the world were designed BEFORE war was declared.

Nor is this design all that feasable without a fleet of support vessels and escort ships. No matter how huge you design a ship, the very nature of the Armour array that accepts damage as part of the overall protection, means she would be still vunerable to massed air attack or Submarine attack.

Working aircraft carriers and reliable blue sea escorts would have to accompany this vessel.

Again both off which the German leadership seemed incapable or unwilling to furnish.  

 Further designs incorpating the different calibres, including a diesel powered Bismarck are on the way.

fig 1. Line span of lattest design considering historical data and a modified armour array to withstand Amercian 16 inch 2700lb shell. Too 'Float' this monster required a hull 400m x 57m, with a standard load draft of 13.1m.
fig 2.more detailed internal arrangement Icluded details are magazine contents, Electric Battle load plant, fuel conditioning plants and exstinsive internal bulkheads.
fig 3. Close up view of superstructure

The H39 and the Z- plan 1939 to 1946.

The z plan and the economic fondations need to be discussed to show the viability of larger designs. Such designs and the accompanied arms race that would have resulted, most likely would placed any particpating countries at the point of economic ruin. 

It could be argued that today, without new limits been set, that any country involved in unrestricted design and construction of warships could still be facing such ruin.

That the various arms treaties agreed in the past have only delayed the inevidable collapse. By restricting a weapons platform's fighting ability, the treaties have allowed other cheaper, newer designs to overcome the restricted designs and as a result of normal design changes to improve the strike performance, they themselves have become the ruinous giants that the orginal authors of the treaties were trying to avoid in the first place.

Without drastic changes to various defense treaties,that address the wastefull duplication of common platforms by the treaty partners, one can not see how such a economic collapse can be avoided, at some point, in the future.

The following series of diagrams are my version of the H 39 class drawings from "Die Panzerung der deutschen Kreigsschiffe 1920-1945 by Bearbeitet von Siegried Breyer".

Using the basic layout as brackground for this model. The model comes out within the ball park of the orginal design; Although the internal layout has been changed to meet overall displacement and placement of equipment within the given hull.


fig 4. Detail and layout as scale as I can be.
fig 5.
fig 7.
fig 8.
fig 9.

Latest comments

19.05 | 15:01

Good point! I was thinking Helo pads but never got around to it. The design thought been why not have full port or base resources including dry dock and repair

19.05 | 11:44

Why is there no airport on top of the base?

03.04 | 13:07

Just found your site-very cool. Also agree with your views regarding government decision processes, all about looking after their arse after they're booted out

19.01 | 08:39

Detailed answers on blog page.